We talk to John Murphy about hiring, recruiting, developing leaders, and building successful teams.
Into: [00:00:00] Welcome to the LA Business Podcast, a form for business owners and senior executives to share the experiences about the elements that drive their success. Your host is Robert Brill, CEO of Brillmedia.co, an Inc 500 company delivering the power of hyper-local advertising. Robert writes for Forbes, Inc and add trade publications.
Our goal is to bring you the stories about successes and failures of people who are making big things happen in marketing, entrepreneurship, and management.
Robert Brill: [00:00:36] Everyone. Welcome to another episode of the LA business podcast. Today our guest is John Murphy, Executive Coach, a Senior Executive of across multiple, massive companies.
John, tell us a little bit about yourself and welcome to our show.
John Murphy: [00:00:54] Robert, thank you so much and thank you for the opportunity to come along and talk to you today. Just to give you a bit of background. I started my corporate career as a door to door insurance salesman. I then, after failing at that miserably, at the beginning, I managed to succeed a little bit better.
And then so much that they promoted me to become a sales manager and then progressed through different, u companies to say as director, then marketing director, then general manager. And the last. A proper job. I had in the corporate world was the CEO of a Pan European Insurance Group based in Dublin.
Did that job for seven years and discovered that I enjoy the journey to get there rather than actually being there. Although I did enjoy the early part of it, but then after a number of years, I began to feel I was repeating myself, so I had to make the call. Do I continue doing that or do I scratch the edge of becoming an entrepreneur and build my own business. So I left 16 years ago and I really kind of took the part of the business that I enjoy doing most, which was hiring, recruiting, developing individuals, and building successful teams. And so I started doing that 16 years ago, and I continued to this day. And fortunately, I’ve managed to, to work with some great clients like Pfizer, Airbus, Vodafone, Mark, State Street Bank and many others.
And it’s been a real joy. So, yeah. So that’s a very quick journey through my CV.
Robert Brill: [00:02:29] And what and what do you do as an executive coach? Can you dive into deeper into that and how you help companies? Like is it with mindset? Is it with sales growth? What is, is it all of it combined.
John Murphy: [00:02:40] Well, what I do primarily, I mean, I tend to be brought in for the CEO of a business or whether it’s a senior executive in an organization, and really what they’re looking for is some transformation.
So it could be, listen, I really need to develop my people. I need to make sure that I’m optimizing the team. So how do I go about doing that? What is it about I, what I need to do in order to do that? It can also be about, really, I really need to figure out how do I build this team? How do I make it into an effective team?
So what are the things that I need to be doing in order to change that and make that that effect of, and then also looking at, you know, I find. You know, sometimes you get, people say, listen, I’m completely overwhelmed by the amount of things that I’ve got to get done. I just don’t seem to be structured. I can working every hour that God sends, but I’m not actually getting the results that I’m looking for.
So, you know, help me do that. And, and my job is to really challenge the way they’re doing things, challenge the way they’re thinking about doing things, and then to kind of help them to put some shape and structure on that to help them to be more effective in the rail roads, but that also to really build their teams to be more effective in the Roseway.
I also work with the teams then, so I have a kind of a team process where I get in. I do analytics on the teams, figure out the bits of the teams that we actually need to focus in on and uh, and then facilitate the team to make that change. And I think as a, as a coach, that’s really what you do is facilitate change.
I mean, I, I can’t come to you Robert and change you. I can challenge you. I can encourage you, I can motivate you. I can. You know, maybe it’s stretch you sometimes, but what, I can’t actually change you, but I can only kind of create the environments in which you decide to watch you make the changes yourself.
But it’s fascinating to work with individuals because you get, you get a very deep relationships with people and you’re really part of seeing them because you’re working with them over a period of time. You get the greatest satisfaction of seeing them grow and evolve. In those roles and to become much more effective, but also to become much more fulfilled in what they’re doing.
Because at the end of the day, you know, I can help. I could work with somebody. Yeah. To make them more effective at what they’re doing. Yeah. But I also, you know, get engaged with them to make sure that they’re looking at how they’re, actually creating a fulfilling life across all aspects of their lives.
Robert Brill: [00:05:06] So it sounds like you unlock barriers that they might have, to ensure that they can do what they do best without these barriers in front of them.
John Murphy: [00:05:19] That’s true. I mean, because in reality, for all of us and in terms of growth or change. We actually get in our own way more than anything else.
And we have limiting beliefs. We have beliefs that we hold on, dare to, and also don’t forget that very often we hold onto beliefs because we’re getting something from that belief. No, we don’t hold on to it just for no reason. Maybe it’s habit. It could be habit, but we’re getting something from holding that belief.
But if that belief is holding you back, then it’s about unlocking that and kind of helping somebody to realize that, you know, if they keep on doing what they’re doing and if they keep on believe in what they believe in. Then they’re actually going to keep on getting the results. And they come to me because at some level or some areas, they’re not getting the results that they want to get.
So it’s really to help people to understand how they play out in the world. And we know we use different assessment tools as well. I mean, I do a lot of work around the whole area of emotional intelligence. And that’s really to get people to understand, you know, this is how you impact, this is how you’re likely to impact other people.
Because when we’re not the best judge of ourselves, because, you know, I might not realize that know the way I communicate with people is actually having quite a negative effect upon them. I might think I’m communicating brilliantly. I might think that the way I’m behaving is actually having a great impact upon people.
But when you actually do assessments on the emotional intelligence, also do assessments in terms of their leadership style so that they, we get that that’s a 360 so we get feedback from different groups is to actually get to. Kind of put a mirror up to two people and say, listen, this is how your behavior is playing out with the people that you’re connected to that are part of the success.
And particularly in your work air area. You can also do it in their personal life, but that’s confined to the work area. So this is how these different groups that you’re interacting with, this is how they see you and very often get people say, Oh, well, they’re just misunderstanding. That’s beside the point.
Right? Not up to them to change their opinion of you or their perception of you. It’s up to you to actually change something about how you’re behaving so that you make sure that you’re changing their perception of you. Because if you want to guide and lead people, they’ve got to believe that you are somebody that is worth following.
But if they see a behavior in you that, there’s kind of just puts a distance between them and you, well then it’s up to you to make that change. It’s not up to them to shift their opinion. You’ve got to do something that really counteracts how they see you and actually makes that shift. So this is all a part of the conversation of kind of taking it bit by bit.
So you go through it over a period of time. To really help people to understand that you know why they should change, and if they make that change, what are the consequences of those changes? So they become a more effective leader. They become a more effective manager, they become a more successful leader, they’re more become a more successful CEO.
And that ultimately is what you’re trying to achieve. But it’s also about helping them. To understand what is it that they want from their overall life. I mean, if you talk about success, success, Robert, for you is successful, may success, whether it be, but it can’t be completely different things.
Right? So, yeah. As to actually get people to define what does success mean for them in different areas of their lives, not just in that single kind of job area. Because I’m not a fan of this kind of work life balance thing, because I just think that’s you know for the birds, you know, cause it’s, it’s, about your life.
Work is part of your life and it’s about creating the space in your life to do the things that you want to do. But you’ve gotta be clear about what is it that you’re seeking to achieve. And the more and more I kind of grow with the business and the more and more I kind of deal with clients, the more I realize that what so many that I’m deling with.
Are really looking to have a life of significance, to actually have a life that has a meaning. Not just to them, but the people that are very close to them and they want to be, yes, they want to be successful in life. Yes, they want to have, you know, all the success of that that can bring, but they also want to have a successful personal life in terms with our family, with our partners, with our kids, if that’s what they have with our families in their community, and they want to figure that they’re growing. And you know, I think it’s interesting, you know, at different stages of people’s lives, they kind of say, well, okay, well what’s the legacy going to be for what I’m doing, you know?
Is there something, is this just about me? And if it’s just about me, that becomes a very narrow focus. So it is about taking it into that broader area to kind of get people to understand and to define what success means in all of the different aspects of their lives. So, sorry, that was a long winded answer to your question.
Robert Brill: [00:10:24] No, I really, enjoyed that, you know, I’m wondering, do you see any trends across the different people that you connect with? And you touched on some of them already in your answer, but more, detailed maybe like. I’m in an entrepreneur’s group and it seems like there’s a lot of the same, similar challenges that we all have that I didn’t even realize we were having until someone verbalized it.
John Murphy: [00:10:53] Yeah. I mean, I think that what you see what you do see an awful lot of is, is, is. People searching to find while they is that piece that I’ve got. Just just make that shift. Because you know, by definition, the people that I come in contact with, people that you would come in contact with are successful, you know?
Depends on different days, determination of what success would be, but I mean, they’re not failures. Right? They are successful. So when you’re talking about, you know, bringing somebody to the next level, it’s, not a major surgery. It’s fine tuning, right? It’s actually finding just those small things that you’ve just got to recalibrate a little bit.
And I think that’s what people are searching for. So they’re actually trying to figure out what is it that I need to do just that extra bit that is just going to have that incremental impact. So I think it is one is that search. I think the other part, which is going back to what I was talking about there, I think that the other thing that I do find is that people at our moral war kind of say, okay, well, you know, it is about the, okay, the job, I’ve got to be effective at it, or it’s my business.
I’ve got to be really successful at that. Is that it? Is that just it? Is it just about, yes, I build a business and ergo I will, you know, take all the boxes or, you know, I’ve become successful in my corporate career, ergo I tick all the boxes and I think people are just getting a more, a more reflective, and I think in the current climate, I think certainty that is something that I’m seeing more and more of, that people are just getting that a bit more reflective.
But yeah, I think they’re also seeing the things that are really important to them. And recognizing that they are, these are the things that are really important, so I need to be to give more time to them. And perhaps I do take some of these things for granted and I don’t appreciate that. And also some of the things that I thought were desperately important.
Now suddenly. Or perhaps not so important. So I think there is that shifting going on, and I think that, you know, that’s really, that’s really been the driver for me, Robert, to kind of develop, you know, mastermind group. Because I think that what people are looking for is connection. They’re looking to have conversations with like minded people, who are, it’s similar situation, not exactly the same situation, but similar situations who really wants to be held accountable in order to get their lives to the next level.
And that’s why I’m kind of developing that model and that platform for people because I think that’s what it’s coming more and more to me. I just find that that personal side is just bubbling to the surface. More and more people are recognizing that this is actually something that’s, creating a gap in my life, and if I don’t address that, you know, something really significant is going to happen that I really don’t want to happen.
I think if you go back a number of years, when you go back to the market crash in 2007/2008 and there was a realigning at that time and people realizing, you know, sometimes, you know, things that they thought that they absolutely had, you know, assets that they thought were, you know, get attached and where we’re going to be forever and we’re always going to go up in value.
Suddenly they were valueless. So there were a lot of lessons learned in that. I think this period of time, you know, I think there’s just going to be a much bigger shift because people are realizing so many things that I took for granted, are just kind of just being taken away from me.
And these are the things that I really value. So I think there is that really, that realignments that people are looking for so that they are creating, they are creating successful lives. You know, not just successful careers are not just successful businesses. And actually trying to find that balance where they do have that level of integrity about themselves, that they feel that they’re actually, you know, building and creating a life that is of some worth and value to the people that really care for them.
Robert Brill: [00:15:00] I really liked this. I mean, I think, but the, you know, the, the core, the core idea for this podcast is helping companies grow in scale. And I think. You really, can’t have a successful company if the leader is doing things that turn, people off. I think fundamentally business owners really need to be able to connect with people. And, I certainly have those challenges. And there are moments when I say, Oh, why did I just say that? Or why did I communicate the way that I did? Yeah.
John Murphy: [00:15:33] Yeah. I just, I think that’s so true. And I think they, you know, because I do think that. When you think that we talk about leaders and the world is searching for leaders, they world is so hungry for leaders, you know, and, in all aspects of life and political aspects, social aspects, religious aspects, all aspects, all that.
People are looking for leaders. But in order to be a leader, you’ve got to have followers. Right? It doesn’t come with the title. I mean, I might be the CEO of my own company, but that doesn’t actually automatically make me a leader. Right? So people have got to follow you on. People will only follow you if they see you as somebody that is worth following.
Right? And that’s more to do about what you stand for. It’s got more to do about it, how you behave. It’s got more to do about how you integrate with people and how you interact with people. And. You know, there’s a lot of talk about value based leadership. And I think that’s true because people are looking for people not just to say the right things.
It’s not just kind of the headline banner and what that I come out on that I’m, you know, I’m a good auditor and I can say all the lines, but if I can do all at that, but my behavior is in conflict with that. If my behavior is not consistent with that, people see that in a heartbeat. So now I’m not going to be followed by them because they might have a transactional relationship with me in the sense that they will turn up, do the work and get paid. But that’s just a transactional relationship. That’s not being a real leader. Oh, that’s not having a real leader either. And so for leaders is about making sure that they do live according to the values that they, that they promote, that they say that they and the organization stands for. And that’s, that’s putting a lot of pressure on themselves because now they’ve got to make sure that everything they do is consistent with their values. And I find it interesting, Robert, when I look around the teams that I’ve worked with, teams all over the globe, right? Different countries, different cultures, different organizations, different types of organizations, different industries. But it’s no coincidence that the leaders who are really value based leadership, but value based leaders, right.
Are the leaders that have the most successful teams. That’s not a coincidence.
Robert Brill: [00:17:54] You talk about values based leadership.
John Murphy: [00:17:58] Well, what I mean that they, really stand for something. They’re very clear about what they believe and it’s very clear what they stand for, that they, that’s how they treat their customers.
It’s how they treat their providers. It’s how they treat their staff. It’s about how they behave. They are always consistent with that. Now we’d all screw up every now and again. Right, and we’d all get a wrong, but it’s putting your hand up when you do get it wrong. And being truthful about it. I made a complete mess of that, you know?
But I think as people are looking for that, those leaders, because they will, they attract people and they attract people and the people want to perform for them, so they go the extra yard for them. So it is no coincidence when you look at high performing teams, the basis of any high performing team is trust.
Right? It’s not the best product, the best process, the best price. It’s nothing to do with that. High performing teams are all the foundation for all of that is trust. And when you talk about trust, it’s that I can be open, I can be vulnerable. I can put my hand up and say, I’m struggling and I’m not going to get that. Nobody’s going to use that as leverage to knife me in the back. So with the teams that have that high level of trust, they get things done quicker because there aren’t games being played. There aren’t politics being played. There aren’t people saying one thing and doing another. So when you get that high level of trust, the whole wheels of productivity and the process wheels just move an awful lot faster and an awful lot smoother.
So there is a real competitive advantage to, to value based leadership. And there’s enough research around the place that actually clearly demonstrates that.
Robert Brill: [00:19:42] Do you have any examples that you can share in real time of companies that either you’ve worked with or observationally that you see in the news or wherever that, that exemplify this value based leadership?
John Murphy: [00:19:56] Yeah, I mean, I certainly have seen, I mean, for example, I’ve, I’ve done a lot of work in Pfizer. Right? And, Pfizer, certainly the, you know, the CEO who just, who just, who retired from there and, and the last number of months in read it in rate was a fantastic man in terms of actually promulgating, you know.
A whole how people should behave, how people you’ll be with each other. How’s your behavior with customers. Yeah. And to do that across an organization, the size of Pfizer globally isn’t an enormous undertaking, but he was absolutely consistent. Right through his tenure, he was absolutely consistent about what he stood for, how people should behave, how people should take responsibility for themselves.
That they don’t just pass the buck, how they behave with each other in terms of stuff, how they treat their customers, how they treated the suppliers, and he was a great example of somebody, you know, it’s a very challenging time. The one thing that everybody knew, everybody knew exactly what he stood for.
And I think he was a great, great example of that. And I think the world just needs, you know, more leaders like that and more leaders in organizations. And you know, we’ve seen, you know, examples in and around the world. But I think that when you actually see it up close, it just makes you know, such a difference.
It makes such a difference to the organization. That clarity and that openness and the transparency becomes so much healthier so people actually perform within, that environment.
Robert Brill: [00:21:32] Are there any telltale signs of actions that you might see people take that indicate that they are clearly not a leader.
John Murphy: [00:21:42] Well, it’s all about them. I mean, when they are more concerned about themselves than they are more than they are, their people would be a very, very clear indicator to me that they, you know, that that’s actually somebody that is more too much focused on themselves. The reality is we, you know, we tend to draw organizational structures like pyramids.
Right? And that’s traditionally how you see it on the corporate slide. And the truth is that actually when you, when you look at real leaders, it’s actually flipped the other way. They, pay very much a servant role to the people that, work with them. And they’ll report to them.
They’re there to support that. They’re to create an environment. They’re there to create an atmosphere that you know of openness and trust. They’re there to provide the resources to help people to be really effective at doing it. So it’s actually quite the opposite. So if I see somebody that has just totally focused on themselves and what they can get from the organization, from the business, and that it’s, it’s just about, you know, what they’re going to get and how they can actually get the most, the biggest bang for their buck. I’m all about efficiency and effectiveness. Don’t get me wrong, because a business has to be profitable, but if a business isn’t profitable, it doesn’t exist and they can’t actually do anything, nobody’s actually going to go anywhere with it, but if you’re having a conversation on the conversation is all about them or is focused and tidy on them, that would be a huge, huge indicator to me.
The other indicator that I would look for, and when I’d ask a leader, I said, tell me, be okay. You tell me about Robert. Right. Okay. And then I just see what does he know? Marcelino how about Robert? And if, if the answer is, well, you’re, Robert has this job and he produces X, Y, Z, and you know, he’s done that percentage of us that say, well that’s, you’ve only told me one part of it.
Tell me something else. So how, how much, how much does that leader know about you as an individual? How much does that leader know about, you know, what are, what are your ambitions. What are your hopes? What are your aspirations? What are you looking to achieve? What role are they going to play in doing that?
If the only thing they can talk about is the transactional relationship that you turn up and you produce, then that’s a really big sign for me. The other thing that you look for is that if you look in conversations within the team. And listen to the conversations.
And if there’s game playing going on, politics going on and you know, people are, you know, kind of saying certain things, but they’re not being open, then you know, there’s a real issue under the leader has to do something about it. Not very often that can happen because somebody just taken over an existing team and they’ve got to change it right.
But if you’re looking at a team that’s been there a long time and there’s no openness, there’s no transparency, then that’s an indication that, you know, this has been led in a way that is actually not going to get the most out of that team.
Robert Brill: [00:24:47] So, you know, I’ve, I’ve really paid attention to a lot around emotional, like you, over the last two, three years, and I think I don’t have a lot of it.
I just know that about myself. So how can a, how can a leader do well when they don’t? You know, I don’t, I don’t think I have a high emotional IQ. How do I, how do I be a good leader when I think I don’t have high emotional IQ?
John Murphy: [00:25:13] Well, I think, well, two things. One is you can get assessed to watch, you understand, because, yeah.
Emotional intelligence is you’re as measured over a number of different areas, right? It’s a measure. It’s about how you are internally. Okay? It’s about how you are, you know, one to one with people and is how about how you are with groups. So it looks at you from various different aspects and there’s kind of, you know, you break it down below that into, you know, impulse control.
How you, how you connect with people, your empathy with people, you know. And so you’ve got to look at different areas. So one is to get assessed, which would be one way of doing, to watch you understand where the big gaps are. The biggest part, to be honest, Robert, is that if you know that you don’t have a higher level of emotional intelligence, then the question is, well, what do you want to do different?
Because I can show you. I can do an assessment and I could, you know, interview and do an assessment and then we can have a conversation about it. But a fundamentally you don’t want to change. That is just interesting data that you’re going to do nothing about. So I would be asking questions. Okay, well, when you say, I don’t have high emotional intelligence, well give me examples of where you believe this has not gone well for you.
And then we talk about, well, why did you say that? What caused you to say that? Why would you, if you were affecting about a, what would you do differently? How do you want those people to feel about how when they interact with you? I remember a number of years ago. I know somebody that I’d worked with and I’ve been working with a period of time and we’re talking emotion intelligence.
They came up and they said, would you assess me? I said, yeah, so anyway, did it cutting a long story short, one of the things that came back on was that their score on empathy was extremely low. Now this person really great. Lovely, lovely person. Right? I’m a good communicator, so as far as he was concerned, low in empathy, no, no.
He said, I agree with all of everything else that, that, that the, that the, the report says, but I don’t agree. I think they got it wrong when it comes to empathy. And I said, well, no, actually I agree with it. And he said, come on. I can’t say that we’ve, you know, we’ve worked together quite some time. I said, I know, but I said, when you’re communicating with somebody, you’re actually just focusing on the message that you’re giving to the other person. You’re not actually really, really focused in on how that message is impacting on other people. And you kind of have, no, I don’t agree. So cardio, I just had to, if you don’t believe me, go and ask people. Go and ask your people. And they said yes.
So his, way of communicates that he is good communicator, but his way of communicating was that I’ve got a message, Robert, I want to convey to you, and I convey it and I do it really, really well. So isn’t that great? The fact that you’re either pissed at me because I’ve said it or I’ve disturbed you or hurt you or undermined you in some way about the way I’ve done this.
You know, I just don’t see it at all. So that’s where you begin to find out, well, yeah, where does this not played out well for you? And where is it not played out well for your team members? And then you began to understand what are the areas that you really need to focus on. But at the end of the day, if you don’t want to change it is only interesting information.
But if you want to change, you can do something about it.
Robert Brill: [00:28:38] So tell us about this mastermind, John, like is this, is this where group groups of people get together and have, what is the mastermind look like?
John Murphy: [00:28:49] I mean, I’ve, I’ve been out there, I’ve been a member of a mastermind for a number of years and really what it’s all about, where we get a group of individuals who meet on a very regular basis. We meet every week, and this is the kind of the platform that I’ve used into actually with my own group and meet every week. So it’s, people get together every week who are very open. They’re very transparent and they’re committed not only to their own growth, but they’re committing to supporting other people.
And the whole purpose of it. I mean, I called the mastermind a life and the living, because it’s not just about making a living, it’s about making a life. Right? And it’s actually about where people can be open and be transparent, and they can look for support from other people within the group. And that group will hold each other would hold each other accountable to ensure it their own growth over a period of time. So it’s really like having a kind of your own board of directors for this particular, you know, this journey that you’re on so that you’re meeting weekly, you build a trust, you can be open, you can be vulnerable.
It’s a safe place. You know, it’s obviously it’s confidential and people can talk about the things that are really holding them back and people can talk about the, the objectives they have and where they want to get to. And then the rest. The group is there to support each other and to help them grow and through that, those kind of learning process, there’s information that, a study, there are books that have studied that we actually make sure we’re going to read the read the valuable content and then everyone gets a different perspective for that.
But it really is for people who want to kind of create a life of significance in their own lives and they want to make an impact and create a legacy for the people around them. And again, it’s a commitment to actually engage and participate in that it is a commitment because people need to be prepared to get involved and to support each other because people join because they want the support from each other. So if somebody is not actually committing to that, then they’re letting everybody else down. So if really is a real commitment to create your own mini board of directors that are going to support you as your journey through.
Robert Brill: [00:30:55] And how long does it last?
John Murphy: [00:30:58] It lasts for as long as, I mean, I’ve been in a mastermind for a long, long time, so, it lasts for as long as people want to stay there, I think that it will last for, as people feel they’re getting value from it and people are actually making a contribution to it. But I mean, the intention is that it actually becomes part of your life.
Robert Brill: [00:31:17] Very cool. John, two final questions. One is, I’m a big foodie. You’re in France.
John Murphy: [00:31:24] Yes.
Robert Brill: [00:31:25] What do you like to eat, out there in France? Well, I mean, we’re very spoiled. We’re really, really spoiled in France in terms of the cuisine that we have available to us. I mean, I would be particularly a seafood person.
John Murphy: [00:31:42] So I, you know, I just love, love shellfish. Oysters not a biggest fan of, but apart from oyster, I would be a big fan of a shellfish and they, you know, I live, within a short distance of the, of the coast. So during the season you can go down there and just get, you know, fish straight out of the sea.
And there are plenty of super restaurants, anywhere you go, that you can really get. Great. So, yeah, it’s a foodie’s paradise, I’d have to say.
Robert Brill: [00:32:14] Amazing John, how can,people find you?
John Murphy: [00:32:19] They can reach me. My email address is [email protected] they can go to my website, www.johnmurphyinternational.com they can get me on either of those places, or they can find me on LinkedIn, Facebook, or Twitter.
But [email protected] is my website. I’d love to hear from any of your listeners and if I can have a conversation and support them in any way. I’d be delighted to do that.
Robert Brill: [00:32:43] Thanks John. I really found this interesting, and I’ll, share this because you know, we’re really thinking about growth and scaling a business, and it’s, I think, yeah, I think it’s, it’s interesting that, you know, the growth and scale of a business really, there’s a lot of things that need to go right.
And it starts with the leadership and it’s like you, you need to have your mind on, right? In order to be successful in a business. And I’ve seen, leaders and I’ve seen folks who. I would argue are doing all the wrong things and they still do well until they hit a certain point. And then the thing just kind of falls apart because they can’t lead people.
And, um, and I, and I think it’s interesting, even from when I look at myself, it’s like I want to be able, I want to be, I always want to be a better leader than I currently am. Very, very interesting, John.
John Murphy: [00:33:36] Well, I think we are. I mean, I think, yeah. The job has never done. The job, has never complete. But I think that what you, as you say, the leader sets the tone and that determines the culture of the business.
And you know, I think it wasn’t just a Peter Drucker who said, you know, culture eats strategy any day.
Very good. We’ll leave it at that. Thank you so much, John.
Robert, it’s a real pleasure. Thank you for the invitation and I really enjoyed the time with you.
Robert Brill: [00:34:04] Thank you for listening to this episode of the LA Business Podcast.
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